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Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

Posted by: Rick Chapman on 6/7/2010

(If you're interested in learning more about the new model of product management discussed in this posting, Patrick Fetterman of Plex, a SaaS-based ERP provider, will be discussing how his company has replaced the concept of product managers with community management at Softletter's upcoming SaaS University Conference in Washington, DC, July 20-22.  Patrick was our top-rated speaker at our program in Dallas in January.  Click here to see the SaaS U in DC agenda. This article also references data and uses charts from the upcoming Softletter 2010 SaaS Report; click here to download the Softletter 2010 SaaS Report Sampler.) 

I've been seeing a great deal of industry press these days discussing "the Agile Product Manager." There are a plethora of new books, new training courses, and new "tools" that are supposed to transform yesterday's slow and sluggish product manager into a new sort of sleek, streamlined being, something akin to Tony Stark in an Iron Man suit streaking through the sky on a mission to save the software industry from the Sloth Monster and pull trapped revenues and profits from the Slough of Despondency.

Unfortunately for all involved, these articles, training courses, and tools are a waste of time (and money) for SaaS companies.

Before going further, let's get to the main points of this article right away:

  • Agile methodologies were never designed nor have they evolved in any practical way to encompass the job of product managers.
     
  • All the training programs that you may have been reading about that purport to teach your product managers to be "Agile" or "work" in an Agile environment are pointless and should be avoided. There are other areas of your SaaS business where you need to be spending your money (we'll discuss where later on).
     
  • There is no such thing as an Agile product manager (though as SaaS firms continue to incorporate community management and analytics into their applications, it will be possible for the SaaS product (or community) manager of the future to provide high quality information from your customers on a continuous basis that will help fuel effective Agile product development at your company).

Now, before proceeding any further, I'd like to urge you to download the following E-book from Pragmatic Marketing, the leading firm in the industry currently offering product management training courses. It's not really a book, more like a PowerPoint on steroids, but it makes the case for "Agile" product management. Unfortunately, the case it makes is incoherent and illogical, but I think it's the best that can be done with the topic and it's not a long read. Download it from the link below:

Click Here to Download Living in an Agile World

A Brief History of Agile

Given the title of this article, I think a brief history of the Agile movement is in order. Agile methodologies were conceived as a reaction against the development processes that dominated the software industry from the 50s through the mid-90s. Traditionally, software firms would develop a product, release it, then have a series of big sit downs and meetings to discuss the capabilities  the next version of the product should possess. These sit downs and meetings were typically accompanied by heated discussions, temper tantrums, political knifings, assassinations, underhanded deals, betrayals, blackmail, and other forms of bloodletting normally associated with high-tech corporate life.

The end result of this cyclical Apocalypse Geek was an agreed upon list of requirements that would be incorporated into the next version of the product. Work would begin, and over the next 12 to 36 months or so, a new version of the product would appear. The cycle would then repeat itself and so things proceeded along. This approach to development is often referred to as a "waterfall development," no doubt a reference to the rivers of corporate blood that spilled down the aisles and flowed down the steps of corporate HQs while the new requirements spec was under development.

An interesting adjunct to this history is the introduction in the late 70s/early 80s of the idea of the software product manager (PM).  The idea and title were lifted from consumer companies such as Procter and Gamble, though unlike PMs at these firms, their software counterparts rarely had P&L authority over "their" products. In the software industry, the primary function of PMs was to:

  • Coordinate information about product development processes and progress between the various functional groups associated with the products development (development, QA, documentation, sales and marketing, etc).
     
  • Manage the requirements list (tick list herding) and, in theory, ensure that at least X% of it was incorporated in the next release of the product
     
  • Talk to customers and, hopefully, transmit their opinions and desires to the rest of the company.
     
  • Execute or assist in executing various marketing programs, assist in pricing the product, and in general make themselves useful in dozens of undefined and unmeasurable ways.

(Another powerful, unspoken reason was that upper management, which dislikes holding itself accountable and is afraid to terminate programmers because they're the only ones who can build the next product, wanted someone to fire when something went wrong.)

Things thus proceeded apace in the world of software until 1995, when word spread throughout the industry of the C3 project.  C3 stood for Chrysler Comprehensive Compensation System, a software development project launched at the carmaker that was an attempt to build a new, complex software application (a payroll application that would replace several existing systems at the company) in a new way using what was christened an "Agile" system called "XP" (extreme programming. The system is still in use and is the principal Agile methodology at 10% of SaaS firms (please reference the table/chart below).

 What is the principal Agile methodology used by your development group?

FDD (Feature Driven Development) 18%
Iconix 1%
Lean Software Development 15%
RUP (Rational Unified Process) 5%
Scrum 45%
XP (Extreme Programming) 9%
Other 7%

 

SaaS companies use different Agile methodologies

XP was an attempt to replace waterfall development approaches with something new. Instead of a vast requirements framework created after much corporate sturm und drang, development would focus on short, highly focused periods of development during which an actual user would sit side by side with the programming group and provide instant feedback on the code being created by the developer(s). The Holy Grail of this first Agile project was to develop code more quickly with fewer bugs that adhered closely to the needs of actual users. All Agile methodologies seek this same Grail.

C3, objectively analyzed, was a failure; after five years the product wasn't completed and the development effort was terminated (one reason being that the poor schnook who was picked to be the user sitting next to the programmers literally broke down). But the industry thought a great many lessons had been learned and new Agile methodologies and theories were introduced, debated, and argued over with a sometime religious ferocity. One point that all these methodologies agreed upon, however, was the need for intense user involvement during the development cycle. Since real users, when approached about sharing cubicles with programmers during Agile development cycles tended to pretend to suffer from epileptic fits when the topic was brought up, then, when pressed, made loud noises about the 14th Amendment to the Constitution and the prohibitions against involuntary slavery, this idea was dropped. (There were rumors about an abortive attempt to breed a race of clones to fill in, but the concpet seems to have gone nowhere.)

Now, this was a problem, because ALL Agile methodologies crave direct customer involvement in the development cycle. What to do, what to do.

Then, one day, an innocent product manager headed down the wrong aisle in their company's office complex, ignored several warning signs, and found himself strolling past a row of programmer workstations. The desperate coders looked up, spotted the luckless functionary, and had an epiphany. There was a quick ambush and a brief struggle, followed by some fast DNA resequencing. When the PM finally fought free of his captors, he discovered to his horror that the letters "Agile Customer Stand In" now appeared on his forehead in dayglo lettering. This DNA reconfiguration soon went viral and PMs everywhere were now expected to represent customers in Agile frameworks. Which they were happy to do when they weren't doing all the other things they were expected to do. Which was most of the time.

Now, this isn't wasn't as big a problem as it sounds because the flock of those worshipping at Agile alters remained fairly small despite the loud sounds the movement made. That's because, as we noted in the previous issue of SaaS U Journal, while it was fine to discuss how to rapidly and incrementally improve software products, the underlying infrastructure of the desktop and client/server systems aren't a great fit to Agile. These platforms still adhere to the traditional 12 to 18 month development cycle; in such a milieu, development agility isn't that critical. Waterfalls will do.

This has changed with SaaS. Take a look at the results from our 2010 SaaS survey below:

How often do you release a "major update" of your SaaS product to your customers? (A "major update" is defined as including significant new features and functionality, not just incremental improvements and bug fixes)t?

Less than once a year
7%
Once a year
15%
Twice a year
16%
Three or more times a year 21%
We do not have a "timed" or set release schedule; we release new features as they are ready 27%
Other, please specify (four respondents said "monthly") 5%

 

SaaS release schedules are unmatched in software industry history

Note that aggregated, 48% of SaaS companies are releasing major new versions of their product three or more times a year; 64% are releasing major upgrades twice a year. This frequency of release was never possible in desktop/retail and client server markets and has driven the rapid acceptance of  Agile methods in SaaS, as we see below:

Does your company implement "Agile" methodologies in its R&D?

Yes
66%
No
34%

  

When we began this survey series four years ago, these numbers were almost exactly reversed.

The reason for the rapid acceptance of Agile by SaaS companies is that the underlying approach is an excellent fit to the hyper speed release cycles of cloud applications firms. Spotting an opportunity, various companies and pundits began talking about the "Agile Product Manager" (and offering courses designed to transform you into one these new, exotic beings).

The only problem is they can't.

The Product Manager/Agile Methodology Non-Conjunction

OK, it's now time to crack open that copy of Pragmatic's Living in an Agile World. We'll interrupt this article and give you time to work through it; a half hour or so should do it.

Good, you're back.  Let's resume.

First, you'll note that the Living talks a great deal about "The Product Owner." The idea of a product owner is an intrinsic part of Scrum, currently the most popular Agile system in use in SaaS. In Scrum, what does a product owner do? Let's quote the book:

"The product owner is a new role, created and defined by the Scrum Alliance (www.scrumalliance.org). Product owners live full-time with development teams—elaborating users’ stories, managing sprint-level backlogs, expanding specifications, and interpreting product vision."

Some of this sort of sounds like things a PM might do. 

So, is a product manager now a product owner? Not according to "Living":

"'And a product manager is now called a Product Owner… right?

Wrong!'"

Not everyone agrees with the above (though I think the book has it right here). For an even more detailed analysis of Scrum's product owner concept, visit Jack Milunsky's blog at http://agilesoftwaredevelopment.com/blog/jackmilunsky/top-10-activities-product-owner and read a bit more about the topic. You'll note that when Jack raises the question of can a product owner be a product manager, his answer is "Yes."

So, why does Living feel that a PM can't be a product owner?  Because:

"In fact, a product owner’s responsibilities are just a small subset of product management."

I think before going further, we need to understand more completely just what it is that a product owner does.  Let's ask Jack; after all, he's a certified scrum master! According to him, a product owner:

  • "Creates and maintains the product backlog." (More colloquially known as the new features that aren't done yet.)
     
  • "Assists with the elaboration of Epics, Themes and Features into user stories that are granular enough to be achieved in a single sprint." (This is shorthand for the creation of simulated users because the lure of cheetos and stale Mountain Dew hasn't enticed any real users into the development cubicles and the product manager is only available to sit down with us on Thursdays from 1:15PM to 2:45PM.)
     
  • "Conveys the Vision and Goals at the beginning of every Release and Sprint. (Hands out the Jolt Cola before beginning more coding.)
     
  • "Participates in the daily Scrums, Sprint Planning Meetings and Sprint Reviews and Retrospectives." (Makes sure that everyone is in their cubicles and working hard.)
     
  • "Inspects the product progress at the end of every Sprint and has complete authority to accept or reject work done." (Looks for bugs.)
     
  • "Can change the course of the project at the end of every Sprint." (Tells the PM that no, that feature isn't making it into this release.)
     
  • "Terminates a Sprint if it is determined that a drastic change in direction is required." (This usually only happens when the company goes out of business and everyone is laid off.)

Whew!  That's a lof of stuff to do. It seems that what a product owner does is manage a development team (in other words, herd cats).  In the 80s and 90s, people with this job were typically called software project managers and it was pretty much a full time job. And project managers always reported to development.

But wait! That's not ALL the product owner does.  In addition to all of the above, they ALSO:

  • "Represents the customer, interfaces and engages the customer." (Since the product manager is never available, screw them.  I'll do this myself).
     
  • "Prioritizes and sequences the Backlog according to business value or ROI." (See the above comment.)

Now, it should be apparent why scrum product owners can't be product mangers. The primary function of product owners is to manage developers and for that, you need another developer. A programming team will not accept a PM as their team leader. PMs don't understand code, they stink of too much time spent with marketing and sales, they wouldn't know how to break out of a do..while loop if they were given a map and they're not qualified to tell us bupkus. Development personnel and PMs may have good business and interpersonal relationships, but coders don't take order from PMs.

But, Living has its own take on what product owner can and can't do. According to the folks at Pragmatic:

"Product owners can’t rank backlog based on ROI (in fact, In fact, this task is impossible for anyone to do, since real business metrics and financial projections don’t exist at the feature/backlog/item level." (BTW, this statement all by itself shows just how out of touch current theories about SaaS and product management are, as increasing numbers of SaaS companies are doing just this. But the point that Living wants to make is that the spreadsheet jockey work should be left to the PMs, not some geek in development.)

And Living doesn't think product owners are much good at representing users to development, either:

"Creating successful benefits and feature descriptions that truly sell products, requires a detailed understanding of the technology and a detailed appreciation of the customers’ problem. This takes lots of practice, hands-on field experience, and a clear view from both sides. In our experience, internally promoted technical staffmembers almost never get this right."

So where does all this Agile theorizing leave us?  Right back where we started. The rest of the book simply repeats the standard mantra that's developed around product management in software for the last thirty years.  For example, when talking about the interaction of product management with Agile teams, we're assured that "Product management is outwardly focused." Uh, yes. And we learn that "As Pragmatic Marketing-trained product managers know, you don’t learn anything about the market while sitting at your desk" an observation that's wrong for an increasing number of SaaS firms and steadily becoming "wronger."

And of course, we hear again that "The point of integration for these teams, though, is a single product manager. When the executives demand 'one throat to choke,' it’s the product manager who is responsible for overall success of the result."

That's nice, but as anyone who's worked in product management and followed the evolution of the job knows, after 30 years of theorizing, training and courses, product managers still can't:

  • Hire/fire personnel.
     
  • Control the budgetary expenditures of "their" products.
     
  • Measure their performance against significant quantitative business metrics.

And they're still the first people fired when things go wrong. It seems obvious that demanding responsibility without authority is ultimately a pointless exercise, but people have been tilting at various windmills for centuries, so I don't expect the process to stop anytime soon.

Which brings us (back) to the  point of this article.  And that is that Agile product development methodologies, are exactly that. Development methodologies. They were designed for and by programmers, they are used by programmers, they are used to measure programming development and they do not apply to product managers. There can be no such thing as an "Agile" product manager because PMs aren't programmers.  And in many cases, the ostensible role of "user stand in" that PMs are sometimes supposed to play, are dedicated to specialists in development who carry out such tasks such as developing use cases, creating personas, and all the other "virtual person" activities that have been developed to cope with the fact that while the PM would really LIKE to stand in for the customer, it's a busy corporate world out there and besides, the PM's leaving with the CEO for a road junket playing the role of demo dolly in front of the press and some important analysts. Scratch the Thursday meeting for the next two weeks.

By the way, to further illustrate the point, I do urge you to read the rest of Living in an Agile Word all way to the end. You'll note that while they talk a great deal about "Agile product managers," they never actually describe what an "Agile product manger" does in contrast to a regular old slug of a PM.  And that's because there's nothing extra for them to do.

Now, it's time to leave the last 30 years behind and look to the future. Let's take a look at some interesting, up-to-date statistics from Softletter's 2010 SaaS Report (due for a week of June 6th, 2010 release).  This is the fourth year of this report, and the current edition was based on 140 top SaaS executives participating in our 119 questionnaire. In the extensive section that deals with the impact of SaaS on product management, we asked three important questions that focus on if, and when, SaaS companies are building into the core of their systems key capabilities that render obsolete much of the current theory on software product management.

The first question is:

Does your product incorporate a "new features or capabilities" request mechanism by customers directly within the SaaS application environment?

Yes 38%
No 33%
We are planning to add this capability 29%

As these numbers demonstrate, smart SaaS companies are learning to use their application platform itself as the mechanism for requirements management. (Oh, worried that customers aren't as smart as you? No problem. Nothing stops you from adding whatever features you want! It's your product. But in a properly architected SaaS product, you'll be measured on their acceptance and usage very precisely. Make sure you're as smart as you think you are.)

Our second questions is:

Does your product incorporate a customer usage tracking analytics system directly within the SaaS application environment?

Yes 49%
No 30%
We are planning to add this capability 21%

As you can see, SaaS companies are rapidly learning that SaaS products offer potentially unparalleled insight into what, when, and how often particular features within the application environment are used. Combined with integrated reporting, a SaaS provider can quickly build a profile on customer feature usage and acceptance of unparalleled accuracy and timeliness (and do it from the desk).

The final question is:

Does your product incorporate a community creation and management system directly within the SaaS application environment?

Yes 18%
No 62%
We are planning to add this capability 20%

As the numbers show, while a significant number of SaaS firms are building community into their products, most SaaS companies aren’t, though the longer a company is in business the more these numbers shift to the "Yes" column (for example, firms in business 8+ years answering "Yes" was 32%).

Softletter is confident in predicting that the numbers reporting "Yes" to all three of these questions will continue to rise in the coming years (we expect all three metrics to hit the 80% "Yes" benchmark within three years).

What will the consequences of these changes mean to the world of Agile and its devotees? Well, there STILL won't be any such thing as an Agile PM because PMs will still continue to not be programmers. But tomorrow's SaaS PM (or perhaps community manger) will be able to help manage and streamline the provision of the one commodity craved by all Agile methodologies: timely, comprehensive user input and feedback as a product grows and evolves.

And this is were you should be placing your financial resources. Not in useless Agile product management training, but instead in building out, integrating the abilities discussed above, and learning how to leverage your application to take advantage of the unique characteristics of all SaaS products: their ability to aggregate all customer interaction with your product, communicate with all customers, and learn directly by observing and analyzing customer's working with your system.

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14 Comments

    • Jul 12 2010, 12:17 PM Roger L. Cauvin
    • This article makes a lot of valid points but I think you make one crucial mistake, Rick. You portray the role of "Agile product manager" solely as if it were a confused blend of product owner and a traditional product manager. Furthermore, you conclude that Agile is purely a development methodology and does not apply to product managment. Note the premise that development drives the Agile process and that product management adapts. I argue precisely the opposite: product management benefits greatly from Agile and should drive the Agile process. The bottom line: Agile is not just a development methodology.

    • Jul 12 2010, 12:17 PM Roger L. Cauvin
    • Just a quick summary of what the concept of "Agile product management" really is: An Agile product manager recognizes that short iterations are critical to understanding the market. She thus insists that development and the rest of the product team: 1. Deliver in short iterations. 2. Ensure that the content of each iteration delivers functionality that she can demonstrate to customers and get real (instead of hypothetical) requirements feedback. 3. Develop (via test plans) the means of measuring the extent to which the product is meeting the requirements. Seen in this light, Agile product management isn't a "silly" term for a product manager that co-exists in an Agile environment. On the contrary - Agile product management largely sets the agenda for the rest of the team, to the benefit of superior market and requirements understanding.

    • Jun 25 2010, 1:57 PM agile product manager
    • You seem to have this inate knack of continously bashing people that don't fit into your square hole and all while continously hawking your SoftLetter NewsLetter. It seems like lot of your assumptions are based on some surveys you conduct - many of the responses for which you don't even know are true to "let-me-get-this-over-with" responses. It is one thing for someone with some industry expertise to say something - just making outrageous statements and creating noise seems to be your model.

    • Jul 12 2010, 2:44 PM Rick Chapman
    • +++ You portray the role of "Agile product manager" solely as if it were a confused blend of product owner and a traditional product manager. +++

      Roger, I don't confuse the two; I've simply pointed out the confusion about the role presented by OTHER people. I don't believe there is any such thing as an "Agile Product Manager." I believe that attempts to sell the concept are simply ways for the PM training firms to earn more training dollars.

      +++ Furthermore, you conclude that Agile is purely a development methodology and does not apply to product managment.+++

      That's not a conclusion, that's a fact. I quote directly from the original manifesto; do YOU see any mention of product managers there? No. Now, I am very well aware that PMs have been assigned the role of surrogate customer by many software firms and I describe, in real life detail, why that doesn't work very well. It has NEVER worked well. And until the advent of SaaS, the number of companies using and interested in Agile was not that high. Agile sounds nice, but in a client/server environment, it's more talked about than used. In a SaaS environment, Agile makes perfect sense, and I present the numbers to prove it.

      +++ Note the premise that development drives the Agile process and that product management adapts. +++

      Roger, I've worked as a PM in the real world. In client/serve land, development drives the process, not product managers. The important point that you need to understand (and apparently still haven't grasped) is that in the SaaS milieu, it WILL be increasingly the CUSTOMER who drives development. Agile, ideally, has always wanted this but it was always a lip service concept in C/S land. Not so in SaaS.

      ++++product management benefits greatly from Agile and should drive the Agile process +++

      Customers are supposed to drive the Agile process. That was always the ultimate goal. Now, it's achievable in SaaS. You need to ponder those stats I provide more closely and reset your brain.

      rick


    • Jul 12 2010, 6:37 PM Rick Chapman
    • +++ An Agile product manager recognizes that short iterations are critical to understanding the market. +++

      Roger, when Softletter first began our SaaS survey series, the large majority of SaaS companies were NOT using Agile. Why is this? Well, we asked the companies we surveyed. And almost invariably, the answer was that the developers had come out of desktop and client/server markets and they didn't use Agile. Oh, everyone knew what it was, but very few paid the idea much attention. In a 12 to 18 month development cycle, Agile just isn't that necessary. And customers often don't WANT rapid iterations of products. They don't WANT their servers being messed with at all, and many, many IT departments regard upgrades and revisions with dread (and sometimes they have good reasons for that dread).

      +++ Ensure that the content of each iteration delivers functionality that she can demonstrate to customers and get real (instead of hypothetical) requirements feedback +++

      I hope you realize that in SaaS, this is finally practical? Without jumping on airplanes? A properly architected SaaS system allows direct presentations of prototypes, direct analysis of customer usage, and direct customer input without leaving your desk.

      I just don't think you fully grasp what I'm telling and you have left your mind a generation behind.

      +++ Seen in this light, Agile product management isn't a "silly" term for a product manager that co-exists in an Agile environment +++

      Seen in this light, of what relevance are PRDs, MRDs, jumping on airplanes, surveys, etc, etc in an environment where customer communities, integrated usage analytics, integrated requirements gathering, management, and reporting are intrinsic to the environment? Just why are PMs needed to explain what customers want when customers are able to talk to development directly?

      Again, reset your mind. The PM or CM of the future will be an enabler and analyst of a community of customers, not a surrogate. The future of PMs lie in their adapting to this new world and building careers around the metrics it enables, not the mushy, unmeasurable mess of ill-defined and contradictory responsibilities and theories traditionally associated with the job. "Responsibility without authority." "Drive revenue with no P/L power." "Coordinate and manage groups with no ability to hire/fire."

      It was always silly, but in SaaS, a lot of the silliness goes away.

      rick


    • Jul 12 2010, 2:33 PM Rick Chapman
    • +++ You seem to have this innate knack of continuously bashing people that don't fit into your square hole and all while continuously hawking your SoftLetter +++

      I'm not going to bother replying to this display of holding one's breath and throwing yourself to the ground while furiously stamping the tips of your patent leather shoes against the earth. Suffice it to say that if this is the extent of your ability to reason and discourse and you were working for me, I'd fire you.

      Also, the fact that you posted anonymously says a great deal as well.

      rick


    • Jul 12 2010, 3:42 PM Roger L. Cauvin
    • Rick, there are plenty of people outside of the training business who believe that "Agile product management" is a meaningful and useful concept. While it's true that the original focus of Agile methods was to address the risks of big up-front design (BUFD), Agilists later realized that big up-front requirements (BUFR) is arguably a greater risk than BUFD. Thus Agile was recognized as a way to better understand market needs. The problems with the direct customer/development model of communication include: 1. Without proper facilitation, customers will not provide reliable and useful information. (E.g., customers will ask for a faster horse.) 2. Someone must aggregate and balance the needs of prospective and existing customers. 3. Someone must make strategic product decisions that, to be sound, require knowledge of marketing and branding principles. No doubt that SaaS enables the person who is carrying out these activities to more easily deliver iteratively and obtain feedback. But certain talents and skills are necessary to carry out these acitivities. I call such a person with such talents and skills a "product manager". Most developers do not happen to possess them.

    • Jul 12 2010, 6:35 PM Rick Chapman
    • +++Rick, there are plenty of people outside of the training business who believe that "Agile product management" is a meaningful and useful concept. +++

      I'm sure that's true, but to date, I haven't seen much information that reinforces that belief. Even SaaS companies four years ago were not large consumers of Agile; that has changed, as Softletter documents. But please note that the change that has driven SaaS in these firms also obsoletes much of what PMs did in the 80s, 90s, and still do in C/S and desktop firms today.

      +++ While it's true that the original focus of Agile methods was to address the risks of big up-front design (BUFD), Agilists later realized that big up-front requirements (BUFR) is arguably a greater risk than BUFD. +++

      The original manifesto makes no such distinction and that wasn't the (original) focus of Agile. The customer (user) was literally supposed to sit alongside the programmer telling them what they needed and if it worked. There was no bifurcation of design and requirements as you postulate.

      +++ Thus Agile was recognized as a way to better understand market needs. +++

      Yes, yes, that's what everyone says, We want to know what customers want. We need customers to communicate with us. Oh, woe is us, we can't persuade customers to sit in cubicles with us and eat stale cheetos and drink flat Jolt Cola and share their wishes and dreams with us! Alack and alas!

      Yet, when it actually becomes possible for this to take place in a SaaS environment, look what happens! All of a sudden:

      +++ The problems with the direct customer/development model of communication include: 1. Without proper facilitation, customers will not provide reliable and useful information. (E.g., customers will ask for a faster horse.) 2. Someone must aggregate and balance the needs of prospective and existing customers. 3. Someone must make strategic product decisions that, to be sound, require knowledge of marketing and branding principles. +++

      First, the contradiction of this should be immediately apparent. Everyone wants direct communciation with customers until they actually have to live with the reality of that; then, instead of being deities, customers (you know, the market) become purblind idiots who need to be queued up and slapped around till they learn what's good for them.

      Let's address these objections. First, a properly architected SaaS system should support requirements management, 24/7 analysis of product usage, and community feedback. That's an awful lot of facilitation.

      +++ Someone must aggregate and balance the needs of prospective and existing customers. +++

      As the article says, no one is stopping any company from adding any feature (or pulling one out) of any SaaS product.

      The difference is you can now be precisely measured on just how smart you think you are. If more people buy, good for you! If more people don't buy, bad for you. But it will be possible for upper management to obtain metrics on performance not available to them previously. And now, as a PM, you can be held directly responsible.

      +++ Someone must make strategic product decisions that, to be sound, require knowledge of marketing and branding principles. +++

      Yes. As I said, I've been a PM. The peope who make strategic decisions at software companies are the people who hire, fire, and control budgets. Middle managers do what they're told.

      rick


    • Jul 13 2010, 10:41 PM Roger L. Cauvin
    • Rick, I'm not sure where we disagree. I maintain that a healthy product development organization needs one or more people with the skills to perform duties related to market facilitation and application of marketing principles. Those duties are typically associated with the product manager role, and they benefit greatly from Agile methods (particularly frequent "releasable" iterations) - to the point that a product manager arguably has a greater interest in championing an Agile approach than developers. Sure, we can snipe at the Agilists who underemphasized these aspects and instead focused more on the effects on development. We can also rightly point out that the SaaS model makes aspects of Agile much more practical and efficient to apply. But none of these things renders the notion of "Agile product management" silly, nonsensical, or invalid. BTW, there is no contradiction in holding each customer up as an expert on her particular situation and challenges, while at the same time recognizing that most of them are not experts in product design.

    • Jul 13 2010, 11:21 PM Rick Chapman
    • +++ Rick, I'm not sure where we disagree. +++

      Well, I THINK we disagree on this fundamental point. You believe in the concept of the "Agile Product Manager." I believe the concept is fairly useless in client/server environments and completely off the point when it comes to SaaS companies. I also believe the various programs, training courses, books on the concept are pretty much a waste of time in terms of providing PMs any real skills or abilities they can use in executing their tasks. One caveat: IF these courses are intended to educate PMs on what development does during, say, a Scrum cycle, they can have educational value. But PMs aren't going to be Scrum Masters; if they are, they'll be leaving PM and moving over to development!

      +++ I maintain that a healthy product development organization needs one or more people with the skills to perform duties related to market facilitation and application of marketing principles. +++

      I don't think this makes much sense. Product development organizations don't normally incorporate product management. When this is tried, product management becomes even more attenuated and directionless. Now, as we both know, some software organizations incorporate technical product managers or requirements specialists; their focus is on use case development, modeling, etc. But they don't spend much time marketing.

      Nor is it the role of PMs to apply "marketing principles" to developers. They're coders, not customers.

      This leads us back to the problem of the current, prevailing view of product management. Again, you return to the idea of the PM as some sort of surrogate for customers. This is an obsolete approach in SaaS. Think instead of enabling a community of customers to talk directly with development (and thus achieve the Agile ideal). (And remember that development will be in a position to be held just as accountable as CMs for their decisions. Ignore the community of customers? Substitute what you want for what THEY want. Fine! But you can now be judged on the results.)

      Forget MRDs and PRDs; no one has time to read or even create them in environments where major releases are coming multiple times a year. Instead, it is the job of community managers to facilitate an ongoing narrative between customers and developments in which the CM uses the SaaS system itself to track, manage, and support this narrative. PMs are not needed to manage tick lists in SaaS; a good requirements system built into the software should handle most, if not all of the heavy listing. Feeling "strategic?" "Innovative?" Great. Go be so and be prepared to be measured on the results!

      +++ But none of these things renders the notion of "Agile product management" silly, nonsensical, or invalid. +++

      Most of these things render the notion of "Agile product management" silly. I refer you back to the Pragmatic "book." It has almost zero content on what an "Agile Product Manager" does. It postulates some concepts that are directly contradicted by an expert on Scrum. No one takes seriously the idea that a PM is going to run an Agile development team. And, as I've pointed out AND as the numbers we present demonstrate, SaaS companies are starting to integrate abilities directly into their systems that make traditional PM responsibilities pointless.

      rick

    • Jul 13 2010, 11:22 PM Rick Chapman
    • Roger, I fear you are arguing from the past against a dawn that is already rising. Plex is doing what I describe. I am personally working with SaaS companies to help implement this new approach. What I describe is happening; it's not theory.

      And at least it's new. When I visit PM sites such as the CrankyPM's, I'm frankly bored at reading endless rehashes of problems, gripes, and observations that were made 30 years ago. It's time to move on.

      rick

       


    • Sep 14 2010, 8:42 AM Roger L. Cauvin
    • Rick, I think you're hung up on labels and political baggage here. Forget the labels "product manager" and "developer". Forget formal departmental distinctions. Forget what Pragmatic Marketing says, which apparently is a sensitive issue for you. When a "community of customers . . . talk[s] directly with development", the team weighs the input, probes in some cases for deeper understanding, applies business judgment, decides what to implement, and leverages quick feedback loops. You can't get away from the fact that these activities happen. If you disagree, I welcome you to state which of these activities doesn't happen in the approach you're advocating. If you agree, then it seems our only disagreement is whether to apply the "Agile product management" label to such activities.

    • Sep 14 2010, 8:43 AM Michael Thuma
    • Somehow I agree. I didn't read the article in the very detail. You see things simply as they are ... Agile is for development teams as well as the Scrum. The Scrum defines the product manager as chick and maybe he can act as product owner but I don't believe this makes lot of sense. The Scrum simply defines that the Scrum master is not responsible for the time estimated, he is responsible for the complexity a team is in the position to handle in an iteration and to guide the team to see the effort and to improve this process. The goal is to get a realistic picture of what can be achieved in the next iteration. In another dimension the product owner and the team form a group of people that share the idea of the collective owner ship to a certain product and the the estimation in time and on the other hand ressources to be spent on a specific story or result as in increment. Spoken little radical. The idea of the Scrum is - keep the business people a way from the production process and let them participate in a well defined border. I can only say the discussion about waterfall, prototyping, V-modell, RUP, Spice compared to Agile is really something different. The moment you give up the vain idea of MDA und create an instance of the Unified Meta Process (RUP is on way to do things) you will end up with something that comes very close to Scrum. What happens now is the beginning of the end of Scrum. You cannot run a company that produces SAAS Services and products like a chemical plant that produces liquid products in a continous process. What happens now ... what is taken - aha we can produce with half or less the people, better quality and the aim is to manage to a) reduce the interation time and b) we will make it that we can achieve with one 4 man team the same as with 20, because this numbers were written down in a book (aim to show the effictiveness of stories - but this is forgotten...). Now the product manager has the weapon to produce what didn't pay before ... This is not a prodcut managers job. Why did most of the other approach fail. People took them picked out what they liked and applied it somehow. The moment you apply prototyping to a big lazy organization results in getting nothing done in cycles - the original idea was just - don't produce just one increment and big iteration over months - show the people something very soon and you get better input - Berry Boehm did not say a lot more - but it was revolutionary these days... The moment you beginn to apply the Scrum more than on micro level you get back the urgency immediatly - the aim of the Scrum is to avoid urgency. Agaile approachs are a very fragile way of producing. Many other approaches are very robust. But I fully undertand and I have seen many people that did not like me this moment, when I told them - guys it is nice that you are here - but now you have the choice - be part of it and take over responsibilty in the development process or just leave - nice to meet you. And in the only those who are commited remain - the product owner - the team (developers scrum master). The Scrum is not so effictive if it is applied in general than it was when applied to projects where web artists who had no idea about the domain had to implement and application that was not document centric.

    • Oct 28 2010, 1:21 PM Rick Chapman
    • +++ Rick, I think you're hung up on labels and political baggage here. +++

      This seems to be completely off point. An observation that product management practices and theories as currently practiced are becoming irrelevant in SaaS doesn't seem the least political to me. I don't work for these companies, have no animus towards them, and don't really compete with them.

      +++Forget what Pragmatic Marketing says, which apparently is a sensitive issue for you. +++

      Pragmatic is simply the largest company in this spacd and therefore used an exmplar.

      +++ When a "community of customers . . . talk[s] directly with development", the team weighs the input, probes in some cases for deeper understanding, applies business judgment, decides what to implement, and leverages quick feedback loops. You can't get away from the fact that these activities happen. +++

      Get away from what? My articles and posting on these say that's EXACTLY what will happen in a SaaS environment! Haven't you been reading what I've said? The point is that they CAN happen in a SaaS milieu because the model inherently makes it easy. SaaS product naturally capture all user interaction and concentrate customers into one manageable, observable "space". This is not true of desktop and various on premise, client/applications. Again, I point you back to Pragmantic's own writings on the subject. Zero content on what an "Agile Product Manager" does. And PM's do not run scurm teams. And developers don't do very well trying to be marketers.

      rick


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"

+++ Rick, I think you're hung up on labels and political baggage here. +++

This seems to be completely off point. An observation that product management practices and theories as currently practiced are becoming irrelevant in SaaS doesn't seem the least political to me. I don't work for these companies, have no animus towards them, and don't really compete with them.

+++Forget what Pragmatic Marketing says, which apparently is a sensitive issue for you. +++

Pragmatic is simply the largest company in this spacd and therefore used an exmplar.

+++ When a "community of customers . . . talk[s] directly with development", the team weighs the input, probes in some cases for deeper understanding, applies business judgment, decides what to implement, and leverages quick feedback loops. You can't get away from the fact that these activities happen. +++

Get away from what? My articles and posting on these say that's EXACTLY what will happen in a SaaS environment! Haven't you been reading what I've said? The point is that they CAN happen in a SaaS milieu because the model inherently makes it easy. SaaS product naturally capture all user interaction and concentrate customers into one manageable, observable "space". This is not true of desktop and various on premise, client/applications. Again, I point you back to Pragmantic's own writings on the subject. Zero content on what an "Agile Product Manager" does. And PM's do not run scurm teams. And developers don't do very well trying to be marketers.

rick

" Read more
by Rick Chapman on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"Somehow I agree. I didn't read the article in the very detail. You see things simply as they are ... Agile is for development teams as well as the Scrum. The Scrum defines the product manager as chick and maybe he can act as product owner but I don't believe this makes lot of sense. The Scrum simply defines that the Scrum master is not responsible for the time estimated, he is responsible for the complexity a team is in the position to handle in an iteration and to guide the team to see the effort and to improve this process. The goal is to get a realistic picture of what can be achieved in the next iteration. In another dimension the product owner and the team form a group of people that share the idea of the collective owner ship to a certain product and the the estimation in time and on the other hand ressources to be spent on a specific story or result as in increment. Spoken little radical. The idea of the Scrum is - keep the business people a way from the production process and let them participate in a well defined border. I can only say the discussion about waterfall, prototyping, V-modell, RUP, Spice compared to Agile is really something different. The moment you give up the vain idea of MDA und create an instance of the Unified Meta Process (RUP is on way to do things) you will end up with something that comes very close to Scrum. What happens now is the beginning of the end of Scrum. You cannot run a company that produces SAAS Services and products like a chemical plant that produces liquid products in a continous process. What happens now ... what is taken - aha we can produce with half or less the people, better quality and the aim is to manage to a) reduce the interation time and b) we will make it that we can achieve with one 4 man team the same as with 20, because this numbers were written down in a book (aim to show the effictiveness of stories - but this is forgotten...). Now the product manager has the weapon to produce what didn't pay before ... This is not a prodcut managers job. Why did most of the other approach fail. People took them picked out what they liked and applied it somehow. The moment you apply prototyping to a big lazy organization results in getting nothing done in cycles - the original idea was just - don't produce just one increment and big iteration over months - show the people something very soon and you get better input - Berry Boehm did not say a lot more - but it was revolutionary these days... The moment you beginn to apply the Scrum more than on micro level you get back the urgency immediatly - the aim of the Scrum is to avoid urgency. Agaile approachs are a very fragile way of producing. Many other approaches are very robust. But I fully undertand and I have seen many people that did not like me this moment, when I told them - guys it is nice that you are here - but now you have the choice - be part of it and take over responsibilty in the development process or just leave - nice to meet you. And in the only those who are commited remain - the product owner - the team (developers scrum master). The Scrum is not so effictive if it is applied in general than it was when applied to projects where web artists who had no idea about the domain had to implement and application that was not document centric. " Read more
by Michael Thuma on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"Rick, I think you're hung up on labels and political baggage here. Forget the labels "product manager" and "developer". Forget formal departmental distinctions. Forget what Pragmatic Marketing says, which apparently is a sensitive issue for you. When a "community of customers . . . talk[s] directly with development", the team weighs the input, probes in some cases for deeper understanding, applies business judgment, decides what to implement, and leverages quick feedback loops. You can't get away from the fact that these activities happen. If you disagree, I welcome you to state which of these activities doesn't happen in the approach you're advocating. If you agree, then it seems our only disagreement is whether to apply the "Agile product management" label to such activities." Read more
by Roger L. Cauvin on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"

Roger, I fear you are arguing from the past against a dawn that is already rising. Plex is doing what I describe. I am personally working with SaaS companies to help implement this new approach. What I describe is happening; it's not theory.

And at least it's new. When I visit PM sites such as the CrankyPM's, I'm frankly bored at reading endless rehashes of problems, gripes, and observations that were made 30 years ago. It's time to move on.

rick

 

" Read more
by Rick Chapman on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"

+++ Rick, I'm not sure where we disagree. +++

Well, I THINK we disagree on this fundamental point. You believe in the concept of the "Agile Product Manager." I believe the concept is fairly useless in client/server environments and completely off the point when it comes to SaaS companies. I also believe the various programs, training courses, books on the concept are pretty much a waste of time in terms of providing PMs any real skills or abilities they can use in executing their tasks. One caveat: IF these courses are intended to educate PMs on what development does during, say, a Scrum cycle, they can have educational value. But PMs aren't going to be Scrum Masters; if they are, they'll be leaving PM and moving over to development!

+++ I maintain that a healthy product development organization needs one or more people with the skills to perform duties related to market facilitation and application of marketing principles. +++

I don't think this makes much sense. Product development organizations don't normally incorporate product management. When this is tried, product management becomes even more attenuated and directionless. Now, as we both know, some software organizations incorporate technical product managers or requirements specialists; their focus is on use case development, modeling, etc. But they don't spend much time marketing.

Nor is it the role of PMs to apply "marketing principles" to developers. They're coders, not customers.

This leads us back to the problem of the current, prevailing view of product management. Again, you return to the idea of the PM as some sort of surrogate for customers. This is an obsolete approach in SaaS. Think instead of enabling a community of customers to talk directly with development (and thus achieve the Agile ideal). (And remember that development will be in a position to be held just as accountable as CMs for their decisions. Ignore the community of customers? Substitute what you want for what THEY want. Fine! But you can now be judged on the results.)

Forget MRDs and PRDs; no one has time to read or even create them in environments where major releases are coming multiple times a year. Instead, it is the job of community managers to facilitate an ongoing narrative between customers and developments in which the CM uses the SaaS system itself to track, manage, and support this narrative. PMs are not needed to manage tick lists in SaaS; a good requirements system built into the software should handle most, if not all of the heavy listing. Feeling "strategic?" "Innovative?" Great. Go be so and be prepared to be measured on the results!

+++ But none of these things renders the notion of "Agile product management" silly, nonsensical, or invalid. +++

Most of these things render the notion of "Agile product management" silly. I refer you back to the Pragmatic "book." It has almost zero content on what an "Agile Product Manager" does. It postulates some concepts that are directly contradicted by an expert on Scrum. No one takes seriously the idea that a PM is going to run an Agile development team. And, as I've pointed out AND as the numbers we present demonstrate, SaaS companies are starting to integrate abilities directly into their systems that make traditional PM responsibilities pointless.

rick" Read more
by Rick Chapman on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"Rick, I'm not sure where we disagree. I maintain that a healthy product development organization needs one or more people with the skills to perform duties related to market facilitation and application of marketing principles. Those duties are typically associated with the product manager role, and they benefit greatly from Agile methods (particularly frequent "releasable" iterations) - to the point that a product manager arguably has a greater interest in championing an Agile approach than developers. Sure, we can snipe at the Agilists who underemphasized these aspects and instead focused more on the effects on development. We can also rightly point out that the SaaS model makes aspects of Agile much more practical and efficient to apply. But none of these things renders the notion of "Agile product management" silly, nonsensical, or invalid. BTW, there is no contradiction in holding each customer up as an expert on her particular situation and challenges, while at the same time recognizing that most of them are not experts in product design." Read more
by Roger L. Cauvin on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"

+++ An Agile product manager recognizes that short iterations are critical to understanding the market. +++

Roger, when Softletter first began our SaaS survey series, the large majority of SaaS companies were NOT using Agile. Why is this? Well, we asked the companies we surveyed. And almost invariably, the answer was that the developers had come out of desktop and client/server markets and they didn't use Agile. Oh, everyone knew what it was, but very few paid the idea much attention. In a 12 to 18 month development cycle, Agile just isn't that necessary. And customers often don't WANT rapid iterations of products. They don't WANT their servers being messed with at all, and many, many IT departments regard upgrades and revisions with dread (and sometimes they have good reasons for that dread).

+++ Ensure that the content of each iteration delivers functionality that she can demonstrate to customers and get real (instead of hypothetical) requirements feedback +++

I hope you realize that in SaaS, this is finally practical? Without jumping on airplanes? A properly architected SaaS system allows direct presentations of prototypes, direct analysis of customer usage, and direct customer input without leaving your desk.

I just don't think you fully grasp what I'm telling and you have left your mind a generation behind.

+++ Seen in this light, Agile product management isn't a "silly" term for a product manager that co-exists in an Agile environment +++

Seen in this light, of what relevance are PRDs, MRDs, jumping on airplanes, surveys, etc, etc in an environment where customer communities, integrated usage analytics, integrated requirements gathering, management, and reporting are intrinsic to the environment? Just why are PMs needed to explain what customers want when customers are able to talk to development directly?

Again, reset your mind. The PM or CM of the future will be an enabler and analyst of a community of customers, not a surrogate. The future of PMs lie in their adapting to this new world and building careers around the metrics it enables, not the mushy, unmeasurable mess of ill-defined and contradictory responsibilities and theories traditionally associated with the job. "Responsibility without authority." "Drive revenue with no P/L power." "Coordinate and manage groups with no ability to hire/fire."

It was always silly, but in SaaS, a lot of the silliness goes away.

rick

" Read more
by Rick Chapman on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"

+++Rick, there are plenty of people outside of the training business who believe that "Agile product management" is a meaningful and useful concept. +++

I'm sure that's true, but to date, I haven't seen much information that reinforces that belief. Even SaaS companies four years ago were not large consumers of Agile; that has changed, as Softletter documents. But please note that the change that has driven SaaS in these firms also obsoletes much of what PMs did in the 80s, 90s, and still do in C/S and desktop firms today.

+++ While it's true that the original focus of Agile methods was to address the risks of big up-front design (BUFD), Agilists later realized that big up-front requirements (BUFR) is arguably a greater risk than BUFD. +++

The original manifesto makes no such distinction and that wasn't the (original) focus of Agile. The customer (user) was literally supposed to sit alongside the programmer telling them what they needed and if it worked. There was no bifurcation of design and requirements as you postulate.

+++ Thus Agile was recognized as a way to better understand market needs. +++

Yes, yes, that's what everyone says, We want to know what customers want. We need customers to communicate with us. Oh, woe is us, we can't persuade customers to sit in cubicles with us and eat stale cheetos and drink flat Jolt Cola and share their wishes and dreams with us! Alack and alas!

Yet, when it actually becomes possible for this to take place in a SaaS environment, look what happens! All of a sudden:

+++ The problems with the direct customer/development model of communication include: 1. Without proper facilitation, customers will not provide reliable and useful information. (E.g., customers will ask for a faster horse.) 2. Someone must aggregate and balance the needs of prospective and existing customers. 3. Someone must make strategic product decisions that, to be sound, require knowledge of marketing and branding principles. +++

First, the contradiction of this should be immediately apparent. Everyone wants direct communciation with customers until they actually have to live with the reality of that; then, instead of being deities, customers (you know, the market) become purblind idiots who need to be queued up and slapped around till they learn what's good for them.

Let's address these objections. First, a properly architected SaaS system should support requirements management, 24/7 analysis of product usage, and community feedback. That's an awful lot of facilitation.

+++ Someone must aggregate and balance the needs of prospective and existing customers. +++

As the article says, no one is stopping any company from adding any feature (or pulling one out) of any SaaS product.

The difference is you can now be precisely measured on just how smart you think you are. If more people buy, good for you! If more people don't buy, bad for you. But it will be possible for upper management to obtain metrics on performance not available to them previously. And now, as a PM, you can be held directly responsible.

+++ Someone must make strategic product decisions that, to be sound, require knowledge of marketing and branding principles. +++

Yes. As I said, I've been a PM. The peope who make strategic decisions at software companies are the people who hire, fire, and control budgets. Middle managers do what they're told.

rick

" Read more
by Rick Chapman on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"Rick, there are plenty of people outside of the training business who believe that "Agile product management" is a meaningful and useful concept. While it's true that the original focus of Agile methods was to address the risks of big up-front design (BUFD), Agilists later realized that big up-front requirements (BUFR) is arguably a greater risk than BUFD. Thus Agile was recognized as a way to better understand market needs. The problems with the direct customer/development model of communication include: 1. Without proper facilitation, customers will not provide reliable and useful information. (E.g., customers will ask for a faster horse.) 2. Someone must aggregate and balance the needs of prospective and existing customers. 3. Someone must make strategic product decisions that, to be sound, require knowledge of marketing and branding principles. No doubt that SaaS enables the person who is carrying out these activities to more easily deliver iteratively and obtain feedback. But certain talents and skills are necessary to carry out these acitivities. I call such a person with such talents and skills a "product manager". Most developers do not happen to possess them. " Read more
by Roger L. Cauvin on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"+++ You portray the role of "Agile product manager" solely as if it were a confused blend of product owner and a traditional product manager. +++

Roger, I don't confuse the two; I've simply pointed out the confusion about the role presented by OTHER people. I don't believe there is any such thing as an "Agile Product Manager." I believe that attempts to sell the concept are simply ways for the PM training firms to earn more training dollars.

+++ Furthermore, you conclude that Agile is purely a development methodology and does not apply to product managment.+++

That's not a conclusion, that's a fact. I quote directly from the original manifesto; do YOU see any mention of product managers there? No. Now, I am very well aware that PMs have been assigned the role of surrogate customer by many software firms and I describe, in real life detail, why that doesn't work very well. It has NEVER worked well. And until the advent of SaaS, the number of companies using and interested in Agile was not that high. Agile sounds nice, but in a client/server environment, it's more talked about than used. In a SaaS environment, Agile makes perfect sense, and I present the numbers to prove it.

+++ Note the premise that development drives the Agile process and that product management adapts. +++

Roger, I've worked as a PM in the real world. In client/serve land, development drives the process, not product managers. The important point that you need to understand (and apparently still haven't grasped) is that in the SaaS milieu, it WILL be increasingly the CUSTOMER who drives development. Agile, ideally, has always wanted this but it was always a lip service concept in C/S land. Not so in SaaS.

++++product management benefits greatly from Agile and should drive the Agile process +++

Customers are supposed to drive the Agile process. That was always the ultimate goal. Now, it's achievable in SaaS. You need to ponder those stats I provide more closely and reset your brain.

rick " Read more
by Rick Chapman on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"

+++ You seem to have this innate knack of continuously bashing people that don't fit into your square hole and all while continuously hawking your SoftLetter +++

I'm not going to bother replying to this display of holding one's breath and throwing yourself to the ground while furiously stamping the tips of your patent leather shoes against the earth. Suffice it to say that if this is the extent of your ability to reason and discourse and you were working for me, I'd fire you.

Also, the fact that you posted anonymously says a great deal as well.

rick

" Read more
by Rick Chapman on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"Just a quick summary of what the concept of "Agile product management" really is: An Agile product manager recognizes that short iterations are critical to understanding the market. She thus insists that development and the rest of the product team: 1. Deliver in short iterations. 2. Ensure that the content of each iteration delivers functionality that she can demonstrate to customers and get real (instead of hypothetical) requirements feedback. 3. Develop (via test plans) the means of measuring the extent to which the product is meeting the requirements. Seen in this light, Agile product management isn't a "silly" term for a product manager that co-exists in an Agile environment. On the contrary - Agile product management largely sets the agenda for the rest of the team, to the benefit of superior market and requirements understanding." Read more
by Roger L. Cauvin on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"This article makes a lot of valid points but I think you make one crucial mistake, Rick. You portray the role of "Agile product manager" solely as if it were a confused blend of product owner and a traditional product manager. Furthermore, you conclude that Agile is purely a development methodology and does not apply to product managment. Note the premise that development drives the Agile process and that product management adapts. I argue precisely the opposite: product management benefits greatly from Agile and should drive the Agile process. The bottom line: Agile is not just a development methodology." Read more
by Roger L. Cauvin on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"You seem to have this inate knack of continously bashing people that don't fit into your square hole and all while continously hawking your SoftLetter NewsLetter. It seems like lot of your assumptions are based on some surveys you conduct - many of the responses for which you don't even know are true to "let-me-get-this-over-with" responses. It is one thing for someone with some industry expertise to say something - just making outrageous statements and creating noise seems to be your model." Read more
by agile product manager on Silly Agility: The Myth of the SaaS Agile Product Manager

"It seems like you keep getting stupid things all the time. Hmm! wonder why? Maybe they are sending it to people who look stupid." Read more
by Anonymous on A Stupid E-mail

  

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